who thinks swearing is a sin?
This is not a direct quote, but Jonno thinks swearing is alright. I am not exactly sure of what you said, but is it correct to assume that you think swearing by yourself is alright, but swearing at others is wrong? Jonno, could you please reply to correct what i just wrote?
Anyways, what does everyone think? Who here swears, and when?
I swear, cos when i was in primary school, my friends just taught me too and i did not know better. Now it is a habit.
In Corinthians 13:4, it says love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
So does this mean swearing is a sin? or are things rude only when other people are present?
For example, it is not rude for me to be naked by myself, but it is when other people are around.
SO please, tell me your thoughts.
9 comments:
Hey sachs! good post
What i said was that, when we are angry, and we swear, God understands, so long as the anger is taken care off. We are human and i think that when we are angry, and we express how we feel, God can take it when we swear. This was based on what a teacher of mine shared with me. That if a human father can see the hurting son who is soo angry and just wants to let out how he feels, how much more the heavenly father who is slow to anger, and who can relate to our very core, cos after all, he did create us.
True love is not rude, but who is to say that swearing out of anger is out of love.
To my mind, who or what is the swearing directed at? What is it's purpose? is it to bring down a brother? is it directed at an unsatisfactory and uncomfortable circumstance? is it used loosely as a form of emphasis?
in the first of the examples im drawn to say that swearing is a way of bringing others down contray to christian belief.
in the second example swearing is used to express disgust for one's circumstances for want of better words, which dont tend to come very often due to lack of discernment in the heat of the moment --> why the **** is this happening to me!!!
in the last example, i think it is just crude for want of better expressions that could be obtained when one is not angry. so this is the dumbest use of swearing in my opinion... eg: "the other day i was f***in doin this and then that f***in car came and ...
so i think it is who the swearing is directed at. I mean, swearing is crude becuase society makes it out to be this way. i mean, language has evolved such that words that used to be crude are no longer crude now. so can it be just the words themselves, or are they merely agents of sin, where when used wrongly, can tear a family apart or see a brother move further from Christ rather than closer?
The word is not the sin i don't think but the way it is used. and we can spend days on end arguing how the words are to be used and what uses of the words are acceptable. surely being crude is contrary to love, but is it a sin to be crude? it may be impolite but is it a sin? perhaps substitute the word "crude" with the word "rough"?
what do the rest of you guys think? feel free to bring up new views, agree or rebut me, etc :D
YoZ!
so am i the first outsider to post a comment in herE? :P jono ask me to post my thoughts on swaering!! hermm....
Personally i don't swear much at all,i cna't say i never but its really rare!any of my close friends could varify that! why? guess its a choice! from young i choose to take up the challenge on not to swear, think it eventually gets into you and you won't end up swearing much. and i'm sure theres heaps of people that doens't swear too!!
have u wonder whats soo great bout swearing anyway?? more appealing? (no, not to girls - girls that don't swear) =p
but watever it is bible says that our tongue is very dangerous. either you speak peace or death to others. we would be accountable for the way we use our tongue. the bible also tells use to speak words of life and encourangment to others too so y dont' we practice that instead of saying ugly things to others?
using swear words for expression? eg. "why the **** is this happening to me!!!" siply just change to "why is this happening to me?" nice short and simple, God knows how u feel already don't need to swear along the way! :P
wellz.. its just a quick comment here.. hopfeully this helps a bit on ur perspective on swearing! :P
MaRcUS.™
Good post sacs. btw u still owe me a verse =]
I have been bought up in a Christian environment, and have been taught not to swear. I have been taught that its it rude to swear and that it often offensive to God in somewhere. I mean, it vulgar and brings down other people, why would you swear when u can choose not to swear.
"Love is patient, love is kind....nor rude...". We all know that verse, and it is supposed to be intergrated into our lives. So, by swear words, aren't you rude to other people. It often also have a tone with it, like how we emphasize on the swear word and it is hurtful to other people. If someone swore at you, wouldn't you be insulted. And we as Christian should not conform to what society does but rather follow what Word of God say.
Speaking of the Bible, it says, in Matthew 12:36-37 that "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Everything we do is accountable to God. And the verse specifically says that we will face God one day and have to explain our actions and words. We are God-fearing Christians and have to respect what He tells us to do.
Another swearing is something like the extended version of "OMG" and its many many variations. that is taking God's name in vain. Even though it is often the social norm and often has no meaning, it is still cursing God. One of the commandments states that "Do not take the name of God your Lord in vain. God will not allow the one who takes His name in vain to go unpunished" . OMG and its many variations are all ways to reference to God's name. His name is holy and 'calling' upon God for other reasons is not good. "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Mat. 5:34-37) Jesus say not to swear but we still do it. we as Christians should set an example. And if we swear, we are just fitting into society, and how can we be of influence if we do that?
And again, speaking of the other swear words, the f-word + several s-words. Why do we want to say those words so much. They have no meaning and refer to faeces and sex. Do we want to be saying random degrading words everyday. I have experience with people swearing everyday, everywhere. My housemates swear 24/7, its like every second word. And everytime its loud and insultive.
Overall, the main thing is why do we have to swear when we can choose not to? I admit, i used to use words to substitute for swear words like "sushi" for "s***" but i get reminded everyday by my parents that it is says so not to in the Word of God.
anyways. im not really much of a preacher myself, so i respect everyone decisions and pray that u refer to the Bible or ask God whether it is ok to swear. and...i have to get back to studying =]
Man this is all a bit hard for me to take in because there are so many responses. So please, if you are answering/rebutting one of my points/thoughts, can you please quote it directly and answer it in the same paragraph? I will demonstrate.
"True love is not rude, but who is to say that swearing out of anger is out of love." Jonno
But are we not supposed to always act out of love?(as in love God and love others)
What is considered a sin? Is it whenever we go against a commandment? or something else? (i really would like your thoughts on this one. maybe even start a new post on "What is sin?". Yes, i know we did the seven deadly sins, but i don't think that there is an exhaustive list in the bible)
"it may be impolite but is it a sin?" Jonno
So is being impolite a sin?, or is more of a "everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial"
For example, a christian was being polite not because impoliteness was a sin, but because it attracted more people to Christianity. (this is just a made up example. My question is "is impoliteness a sin?)
and when we swear just at nothing, is it actually directed at someone? does it negatively affect anyone? For example, i trip on a rock and say S@#$.
I ask this because i sometimes feel that when i swear, it is the same feeling as saying OMG. So does that mean i am offending God when i say the S and F word as well?
"have u wonder whats soo great bout swearing anyway?? more appealing?" Marcus
"why would you swear when u can choose not to swear." Rach
There's nothing great about swearing, people do it to express feeling. To illustrate, i could say "why do people cry when they are sad? It achieves nothing, so why should they do it when they can choose not to" But obviously it does achieve something in that you feel relieved because you expressed you emotions. I know that swearing has more negative effects on others than crying, but i was just using crying as an example to illustrate why people swear.
"And again, speaking of the other swear words, the f-word + several s-words. Why do we want to say those words so much." Rach
We use these words because we want other people to understand us and share our feelings. This is because as humans we want to express ourselves, often to other humans. The F and S word are just cognitive shortcuts for us to communicate feeling. A cognitive shortcut is like when something has connotations/associations which everyone knows about. For example, 7-Eleven has a strong association with slurpees. The first thing that comes to mind when i say 7 Eleven is probably slurpee. So when someone says the S word, in our minds, there is a cognitive shortcut to feelings of anger.
In all the stuff i have written just then, i am not supporting swearing, i am just stating why it is done(from my experiences) to answer your questions, and to help you get a better idea.
"Speaking of the Bible, it says, in Matthew 12:36-37 that "But I say unto you, That every idle word.....tells us to do." Rach
I like this response, but i am just a bit unsure of what exactly it means by idle.
Good issue!! When I read this post, my brain was bursting with replies so I thought I'd hold back til I got the thoughts sorted out, but who am I kidding my thought never get sorted out lol :)
And I'm not too good at segmenting replies too so sorry Sacs! Can I just brain dump my opinion? I'll try to be organised though.
With reference to...
Jono:
I agree with the "intention of swearing" thing. Obviously if you are cursing someone, it's bad. Because you are saying something to bring that person down. But saying it to a thing, or about something...
Rachel:
...joins up with "why swear when you can not swear". But I totally get what you mean Isaac that you actually just use it as a form of expression. Because merely saying "That was so cool!" doesn't quite convey the same expression as "That was so ****ing cool!". And yeah unfortunately, we've somehow evolved English so that swear words are the new 'so' and 'very' and 'super' and other such descriptive words. And all the other original words have become less significant on the expressive scale.
Marcus:
And I agree that if we're talking to God like say talking to Him at the end of the day, letting out your frustrations...I mean really, if you're talking to God there's no need to hyperbole anything cos really He does know everything! So yeah it's kinda of unnecessary there.
I have really horrible memory so I'm not sure where this very popular verse is from but recall the Fruits of the Spirit? Remember self-control? Yeah. I believe that God wants us to have self-control. So although it's very satisfying emotionally and intellectually to appropriately express how we feel about something, God wants us to exercise self-control. In all parts of our lives actually, and what we say is definitely one of it.
Oh yeah! A few days ago my mom and I were just talking about Oh My Goodness. Which is also swearing because Goodness is used in replacement of God. But my mom said something which I'd never thought of before. Only God is good! Nothing else is truly good. And so saying Oh My Goodness is exactly the same as Oh My God. Just like Oh My Lord. Yes, do not use the name of God in vain! I'll remember that forever because I read it in a book when I was a kid and it stuck. Plus, I always imagine how it would be like to be in God's place and have people calling on your name for every minute thing. For no good reason at all. Sometimes even used for negative reasons. I would be so irritated and...okay this comment is long enough without me story-telling.
And I've lost track of who I'm agreeing with. Sorry someone. But yes, in the Bible it is stated that "all things are permissible but not everything is beneficial". And it's true. Lying and stealing...only in the Old Testament is it forbidden in the 10 Commandments. But when Jesus came, He told us 2 things. Love the Lord your God and love God's people. And so, in everything we do, we should do out of love. That's why it's so obvious that lying and stealing are bad because sheesh you don't rob your wife or your dad (well actually i do recall a few newspaper stories but lets talk about mentally stable people, shall we?)!
Is swearing loving? Although it isn't always unloving, I can't think of anyway in which it is loving. I suppose some people address close friends affectionately using insulting things like Stupid (with a smile) and that was me some time ago by the way haha. But still that's not a good idea because yes the tongue is lethal! And what you say, although it may always mean the same to you, but to the receiver of that, let's say I have a friend who is feeling particularly grouchy or insecure or vulnerable, it won't be very nice to called Stupid even though I totally meant it in the most affectionate way possible. It's not uplifting at all.
Also, swearing in the presence of other people although not AT them often makes them feel uncomfortable right? And yes it's rude!
In all things we do, we should uplift our brothers and sisters! This doesn't mean make them happy all the time (like there are times when they need to be corrected or disciplined or made aware of bad habits etc), but to be a support and encouragement to them as they journey towards the likeness of Christ as we all are!
And one thing, swearing at/about things, just builds a habit and increases the likelihood of us actually one day swearing AT things and people! Which is unquestionably a sin! So if not for any other reason, we should abstain from actions that will lead us nearer to committing sinful acts! Right?
And that's all I can remember for now. Cheers!
ok so much stuff to discuss...
...been thinking and reflecting about it for a couple days.
so this one will just be in response mainly to isaacs first post.
isaac: who thinks swearing is a sin?
response: yes, i do.
isaac: what does everyone think? Who here swears, and when?
response:
Swearing in-game is just as bad as swearing in RL. I used to swear tons online, in-game, cause my parents couldn't tell that i was doing it. Plus thats what the online culture was like. Everyone would drop the f-bomb all the time. But it's funny cause when people talk about constructive things in that certain community like the development of the game, I noticed swearing would be lessened. Maybe cause abstaining from profanities increased constructivity because it made things clearer to understand :)
Later I realised I shouldn't be doing what I was doing just cause everyone else was doing it. I slowly stopped using it, like how a smoker quits using nicotene patches, starting my drop from the f and s word, to just the s word, to now just crap. btw I was also able to drop derogatory terms which refered to females, homosexuals and genitalia. At the moment for me the use of the word crap just refers to stuff, crap/stuff: things you don't feel is of much importance and can't be bothered thinking about other words to describe it cause it's not worth thinking about at all. I wouldn't describe my use of 'crap' as a substitute of a swear word.
Those who are struggling with swearing as a bad habit, try what I did.
Don't go cold turkey, step down gradually, it just might work ;)
I didn't pray about it, but I can now imagine how much easier it would have been, if I did.
So yea get God to help you, undoubtedly he’ll work wonders.
I've matured over this passing year, lack of swearing being evidence of that. Not entirely sure if that's God working in my life or just me growing up, maybe both. What I am sure of is it's a good thing and I praise God for that. I've become more accepting of people and less judgemental. So ++ to that.
Question.
May I ask how you deal friends/people who swear a lot?
For me when I'm surrounded by people who swear a lot.
I try not to judge them (matt 7:1-2)
I don't even point it out to them cause the majority of the time i don't see it as being constructive. It becomes an annoyance to them. Like I know some christians who would point out to their non-christian friends that swearing annoys them but in my opinion it achieves nothing, they still end up doing it cause it's force of habit, they only appologize after and sometimes they may not even do it sincerely. In the end it's beyond your control and you need to ask God to step in I guess. Am I right? Thoughts anyone?
I must admit though mild course language just doesn't offend me as much as it used to.
Is this a bad thing? Maybe? Maybe not?
Something to note though, is that when you hear a child use such language its much more offensive than if they were an adult, is this because of what society and our culture has hammered into us? What do you lgers think?
Another thing I find interesting about swearing is that swearing to one person may not be swearing to another.
Eg. On rare occasions I could use a word starting with f or s which isn't an actual swear word and be politely conversing with my brother and it could still be heard so mistakenedly by my Dad, cause he's so sensitive and uptight about us swearing.
He'll misinterpret anything that is not even close from the actual word. Then he'll tell us off...
Another thing is, when I've had non-christian friends over he'll be more accepting of them as opposed to when I let something slip, cause he would just blame their culture and the way they've been brought up. I kinda feel this is unfair, I don’t know maybe….
In terms of substitution.
I've grown up and been forced to believe by my dad that substituting words is just as bad as swearing. For myself though I believe swearing even in your head is just as bad as verbalizing it. My reasoning is sorta like thoughts are as bad as actions...This sort of approach helps limit what comes out I guess.
Can't say I'm clean though, I try not to swear at all, but admittedly it's hard, ITS HARD!!!! But i have to confess even today (technically yesterday) i've used the f-word in a voice simulator while playing around with audio in fruityloops. Why? Because a uni friend told me it would be funny and again confessingly it was funny because hearing an artificial voice (similar to stephen hawking) outputting profanities was not only amusing to him but was somewhat amusing to me.
In terms of swearing I see it as a bad thing if its offending those around me.
Was it offending those around me? No.
But if you bring God into the equation and how he's omnipresent, meaning he’s everywhere is the above situation a bad thing? You guys can tell me, with bible references please! If I believe it will offend those around me, I'll go to great efforts not to.
Most of the time when I do swear it's cause I make fun using swear words (not to use them to bring people down) but to quote characters from vids or movies, for laughs/entertainment/amusement? Some people would call this ‘swearing in context’
Is this a sin? Is making people happy a sin?
Examples include: Jonah from summer heights high or the seagull from beached as
People laugh because people can relate, people use swear words because people can relate.
I won’t justify swearing, but if it is a sin, then we are able to relate to each other because we are all sinners. Question is, is that what we want to relate to each other with, or rather, relate to each other with greater deeds that God has planned for us to do.
THanks for organising your thoughts everyone. It's so much easier for me this way:))))
I found a great verse which can kinda respond to Sam's questions, but the closest word to swearing in the verse would be "slanderer". But the main point of the verse can be an answer to Sam's quesitons.
"May I ask how you deal friends/people who swear a lot?
For me when I'm surrounded by people who swear a lot." Sam
"Another thing is, when I've had non-christian friends over he'll be more accepting of them as opposed to when I let something slip, cause he would just blame their culture and the way they've been brought up. I kinda feel this is unfair, I don’t know maybe…." Sam
I think i can answer both of these at the same time.
9 I have written to you in my letter not to associate with secually immoral people- 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now i am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?Corinthians 9-12
"Most of the time when I do swear it's cause I make fun using swear words (not to use them to bring people down) but to quote characters from vids or movies, for laughs/entertainment/amusement? Some people would call this ‘swearing in context’
Is this a sin? Is making people happy a sin?" Sam
This is probably another permissable but not beneficial things. So i think in these cases we just need to remember that the tongue is lethal.
After reading 1 Cor 5:9-12 that explains a lot.
Ty Isaac!
In law we learn about tests. For instance, there is the 'but for' test which establishes causation when someone is hurt and suing the other. The court will ask, in light of surrounding circumstances, "but for the other's act, would this person get hurt"...
As such, I will seek to forward some tests and hope that they will help in this area of swearing.
There is "but it doesnt hurt anyone anyways" test... how often do we say that, and you noe, i take that back wat i said before, even though we may not hurt or bring others down, i think we are still falling short of the standard that God expects of us. True unity amongst others is a priority. But our conduct behind closed doors is what defines our character. Let's consider this.
- If I choose to hit a punching bag in anger and rage in the basement of my house rather than in a brawl in a Russell Street pub, am I any less violent?
- If I choose to hack into a school system in order to find out answers to an examination rather than cheat by looking at the paper of a friend in an exam hall, am I any less dishonest?
- If I choose to watch pornography in my room but never stare at a girl inappropriately or engage in premarital sex, am I any less lustful?
I think you guys get the point. Emanation or lack thereof by our actions is no excuse.
The next possible test would be the "is it a sin?" test. This test points directly at the verse about not everything is beneficial though permissible because after all, God respects our free-will. So though we may not be aggressive in evangelising for instance, it is not a sin, but wouldnt we want to be more on top of our sharing of the good news to those around us who are still living in darkness? The parable of the talents talks about maximisation of capability. Are we? Swearing may not be a sin if we just use it as a form of expression, but how much self control are we maximising?
How about the "what would Jesus do?" test? We are called to live like Jesus did. Surely we cannot go wrong there. Did Jesus swear? He did show anger when he wrecked the marketplace in front of temple. But that was because it offended the sanctity of God's house and offended God. So if we could pick an equivalent, perhaps someone speaking in a way that offends God...but the difference is that, Jesus was perfect and we are not and as such, who are we to be God's defenders in that area. Not saying we are not to defend God, but who are we to judge.
What then of when he had personal issues? He prayed. What we have been learning to do the past few months. Jesus committed his suffering to God. He thanked God for provision. He prayed that God will provide him with solutions and miracles. I think Jesus did that because there was merit in it. Sure i said that God can understand when we are frustrated and we swear. And I did say that what of the man of limited expression? But we are not people of limited expression. One only has to watch British comedy to find out how flowery the English language can be without being profane but expressing just the same effective blow. Would Jesus swear, if he had the choice...NO.
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